Matt Forde: ‘It’s depressingly easy to find the funny side of things’

Happy to satirise both sides of the aisle, Matt Forde has carved out a well-earned reputation as the UK’s foremost political comedian.

Famed for his smash-hit Political Party podcast on which a who’s who of the British political establishment has guested, Forde has numerous TV and radio credits to his name, and has written and voiced puppets for the hugely popular return of Spitting Image (Britbox).

He released his acclaimed debut book Politically Homeless during the 2020 lockdown.

As part of a major UK tour of his show Clowns To The Left Of Me, Jokers To The Right, Forde will be appearing at Bath Komedia and Tobacco Factory Theatres in April.

He caught up with Bristol24/7 to talk political heroes and villains, falling in and out of love with politics, and the importance of comedy at a time of crisis.

Matt Forde – photo: courtesy of Avalon UK

Can you tell us a little about the show? Are your audiences generally from the left, right, or centre ground, and does it matter?

“I think I definitely get a mixed crowd which is really good. I would say they are broadly taken from Labour, Tory, Lib Dem and SNP circles, but a mainstream element. And despite being vocally anti-Brexit I always have plenty of Brexiteers come in. I think because I joke about everyone, everyone knows that even if their side is getting a walloping for the next 15 minutes, I will move on. It’s not just going to be one-sided.

“It’s a happy accident that because my politics are round the middle, I simultaneously have respect for people in various parties and can also take the mick out of them. I’m not trying to get people to vote a particular way – even though I have very strong political opinions myself, I’m broadly pragmatic about people that I disagree with. I’m very lucky that I’ve ended up in a situation where, for the last few years, politics has been terrible on all sides, and that’s given me a lot material.”

Who are your own political heroes, dead or alive, and what inspires you about them?

“There’s quite a few actually. From a Labour modernisers’ perspective, Hugh Gaitskell has always been a hero for a lot of us around the centre ground. When I was first growing up and Neil Kinnock was the leader of the Labour party I just found him so inspirational, and I thought the Tony Blair years were incredible, too – he was a phenomenal politician.

“I grew up in a deprived part of Nottingham in a single parent family, and watching Labour get elected was one of the most incredible moments of my life really. It changed our life. I have always been reliant on the NHS, and I saw it change very quickly into a far better funded, far better resourced, far more effective machine. Even things like the Educational Maintenance Allowance meant that I could stay on and do my A-levels. It had an immediate impact on my quality of life having a Labour government. They targeted so much help at people like me. I will just be forever grateful for it.

“Tessa Jowell has always been another hero of mine. She sadly passed away in 2018, but she was one of the most incredible people I’ve ever met. The Olympics wouldn’t have happened without her. I interviewed her on my podcast years ago, and she was next level. I don’t believe in God, but I have a lot of respect for people that do, and that experience was the closest thing I would say I’ve come to meeting a saint. She was so rare, Tessa Jowell, and being a politician meant the world to her in the right way. She was entirely motivated by public service.”

Over the many live podcast shows that you did at Westminster, who were your most candid or entertaining guests on The Political Party?

“William Hague is incredibly funny. He has got comedian’s talent – he’s a phenomenal storyteller, and he can deliver punchlines at a rate that is intimidating. He’s just so funny. And he was basically mocked when he was leader of the Tory party; I mean the guy was seen as a joke. Very quickly after that defeat and then once the Tories were back in government, he became foreign secretary. He was one of the biggest assets of the coalition government; an elder statemen, and a really credible individual. It just goes to show that if you take defeat correctly and you learn the right lessons from it, it can really improve you, and I think that’s a really important life lesson.

“Obviously politicians go through this so publicly and so humiliatingly. Ruth Davidson’s always great. Sayeeda Warsi is one of the funniest and most outrageous people I’ve ever met, with a phenomenal personality; you just don’t want the night to end when she’s on because she’s so good, and mega sharp.

“Sometimes I think the direction of the government at any one time can really do a disservice to a lot of the people in that party. Take Boris Johnson and the conservatives at the moment: I think he’s a terrible advocate for conservative politics.

“And then you talk to people like Michael Heseltine, who is 88 and still sharp as hell, and you get a far better idea of what real conservative values are and why they’re so attractive to so many people – even though I would never vote for them. But it’s a far more credible creed than the one often pedalled by a prime minister like Johnson, and it’s so refreshing to realise there are people in that party that are clever, thoughtful, have a far more serious take on the problems we face as a society, and are serious about sorting them out – they are actually connected to real life.”

Would you say that politicians are able to share a bit more of their real selves in conversation with you, as opposed to how they might come across in mainstream media?

“That was the reason they set it up, and that was the aim. I think they come on the podcast because they do trust me, and they’re right to. I’m not trying to catch anybody out, ever. I’m there to try and bring them out and give them a platform to be themselves for an hour, and whether that’s funny or thoughtful or serious or whatever it is – I’m just trying to tease that out of them.

“Obviously I take the mick out of them, and they take the mick out of me; there’s a bit of back and forth, but it’s not sycophantic. It comes from a place of respect, and a desire to genuinely listen to what these interesting people have to say, whether they’re left or right wing.

When you wrote Politically Homeless, you had fallen out of love with politics. Did it win you back? What’s your personal attitude to it currently?

“I’m glad the Labour party is incrementally getting more sensible, so that’s a huge relief. And obviously Joe Biden won, so there have been big things that I have been heartened by. But I still don’t want to rejoin any political party; I’m still horrified really, at some of the people that are still in the Labour party. You only need to look at what’s happened in Ukraine: when you’ve got people blaming NATO instead of Vladimir Putin, it’s absolutely appalling, and I just couldn’t be a member of a party that contains that opinion. That for me is not mainstream labour politics; that is broken. Those people are a constant drag on the movement, and the electability of the party.

I think Keir Starmer is a very serious leader with very strong values and they’re all really positive things, but the Labour party as a whole is still in a state. There are so many issues. It’s the party of equality, and yet it has never elected a woman to lead, which is both incredible and horrifying. I think it has really just taken its first tentative baby steps back into normality. But the future of Labour still isn’t guaranteed, I don’t think, much as there are some wonderful people in there I have a lot of respect for.”

What do you think they might they learn from you?

“I’d never be so bold. All I would say is that the Labour party with a genuine sense of conviction, is the only time it wins general elections. And the more that it has indulged itself, the further away it has got from government. And it’s because they’re not listening to the people. Labour became very self-indulgent in the 1980s and paid the price, and it repeated that mistake under Corbyn. And the British people need a viable alternative to government, at any time.

“But to think we have been through the post-crash landscape of austerity, and Labour just hasn’t been on the pitch. All the people have really been offered is the Tories, and to not have been able to have a credible opposition to austerity and everything that’s happened since; to not be able to offer leadership just before Covid – imagine how different things might have been with a responsible leader in charge?

The more I think about it, I actually struggle to stay calm because the whole point of being in the Labour party is to try and form a government; that’s why it was formed. It’s not meant to be a pressure group, it’s not a think tank, and it’s not a charity – it exists to run the country, and anything that takes it away from that is sabotage.”

Given that your comedy is about politics, how easy is it to see the funny side, when things look bleak?

“It’s depressingly easy to find the funny side of things. You’re a comedian and so funny things always spring to mind, but often it is in the darkest or most difficult times that the comedy presents itself. When things are fairly calm, the comedy isn’t as readily available perhaps, or it’s harder to generate. Certainly audiences are keener on hearing political comedy I think at times of chaos or crisis, and they see it as simultaneously a weird way to get informed, but also as cathartic, when you can get together and laugh about what a terrible government we have, and what a terrible opposition we’ve had.

When you think about it, it’s bizarre really – the fact that it’s an outlet for the emotional distress of being governed by Boris Johnson. But I think it’s true that if you can laugh at stuff, it really does help you process it.”

Being on the road again, coming out of the pandemic, does it feel doubly cathartic to feel that oneness of a live audience again?

“Oh there’s no substitute for live, and it’s certainly made me understand the value of it more. I was always quite flippant about it; I could never claim that comedy was important really, not like being a paramedic or a teacher or a social worker. But certainly, during those darkest moments of lockdown, the things that I really wanted to watch were comedy. I just saw it as fun, and fun is important.

“It actually performs a vital function for relief, and stress relief, and if you’ve had a terrible week at work – or whatever is going on in your life – for the hour or so you’re at a comedy show you completely forget that. And it’s not just forgetting it, it’s forgetting it whilst laughing, and I think that is actually very potent. Certainly the times that I laughed during lockdown meant way more to me than they ever had before, and I really understood the profound value of it.

“As a performer, I only realised I’d missed it once it came back. It was then, when I started doing it again, that I had this ‘oh my god!’ revelation. What an amazing feeling; what a privilege to just come up with ideas and just go onstage and say them. It’s mad really. It’s an insane way to make a living, and so special. I fully appreciated what a wonderful job it is, when it returned.”

We’re still quite fractured as a country. How do you think we change the political culture for the future?

“I think you’ve hit upon it – the problem we’ve had is we’ve had politicians whose whole political strategy has been to divide rather than to unite. Ruth Davidson talks about this – about losers’ consent: you’re not just governing for the people that voted for you, but rather you have to make those that didn’t vote for you feel comfortable under your leadership. That doesn’t mean that you change your politics, but you govern in a way that feels collegiate and you’re speaking to the whole country.

“I think fundamentally a lot of our problems are down to the political parties, and I think the danger is as a public, we blame ourselves and we say ‘we get the politicians we deserve’. I do not agree with that. The Tory party and the Labour party are the gatekeepers of our democracy; it’s up to them to find the very best candidates. We delegate this responsibility to them, and they both failed, and that’s on them, and it’s for them to change.

“Talent goes such a long way in politics. The prime minister is the most important job in the country; it’s a prerequisite really, to pick someone really impressive. But beyond that, the public don’t want divisive politics. They are repulsed by the division of Brexit.

“Whichever way you voted, most people don’t want to keep re-arguing it, or defining ourselves as leavers or remainers any more. We’re defined by our friendships, our families and our interests.”

The UK tour for Matt Forde: Clowns To The Left Of Me, Jokers To The Right comes to Bath Komedia on April 3 at 7.30pm, and Tobacco Factory Theatres on April 24 at 8pm. Tickets are available at www.komedia.co.uk and www.tobaccofactorytheatres.com respectively.

Main photo: Avalon UK

Read more: The beautiful silence before the laughter

Listen to the latest episode of the Bristol 24/7 Behind the Headlines podcast: