Steve Lansdown: ‘Part of me says I don’t want England to win the World Cup’

Steve Lansdown says that the state of rugby in England is currently “in the doldrums”.

The Bristol Bears owner was speaking to fans at Ashton Gate ahead of the men’s team’s first game of the new season, saying it was unfair that supporters were paying their money with some of Bristol’s best players still in France for the World Cup.

The billionaire owner said that he would not mind if England did not lift the Webb Ellis Trophy because the management of the RFU needs to change as it is currently “quite amateurish”.

These are some of the highlights from Lansdown’s Q&A:

On recruitment

“A lot of things happen behind the scenes that nobody hears about, but we’ve had some serious conversations over the last couple of years and really put a lot of effort into getting our recruitment right. I think you’re saying it in two ways. You’re seeing it, first of all, in the academy side of what we’re doing with the young players coming through, Bristolians playing for Bristol. With Fitz Harding being captain of the club now and I think that’s a great achievement for him. That’s also a great achievement for the club.”

“The way we’re building the squad now is great. Pat has always been very good, looking five years down the road as to who he wants to have in his squad next year, the year after, and so on. And that changes as players become available or not available. And it’s just a constant job all the time. So, one thing we do really well at the Bears is recruit and develop and that makes me really proud.”

On Bristol Bears Women

“A few years ago, Bears Women didn’t exist. They do in a big way now. And I think that’s a credit to, again the club for developing the women’s game within the Bears, and they are successful too. So we’re very proud of them. The fact that they are able to play at Dings is great because it’s a great facility for them. This is their home. Yes, we like to put as many games on here (at Ashton Gate) as possible. But obviously there’s a limit to how many games can be played. But to be honest, when there’s a big game and we can make it happen, we will certainly make that happen for them the same way as Bristol City Women play here now. We want to use the stadium as much as possible for sport on a regular basis. And so Bears Women will be I’m sure paying here at different times during the course of the year. But in general terms, I think we can all be very proud of the club as a whole and Bristol Bears Women is a major part of that. And let’s face it, they have been the most successful part of that for the last season. So so the men a little bit of catching up to do.”

On the current situation in the English game

“My view of the RFU is not very complimentary. I think it’s been quite amateurish for many years. I would love England to do well in the World Cup and even win it, but part of me says I don’t want them to either because I think it needs to change. First of all, let me just speak for club rugby. Because I think club rugby gets short shrift in the calendar. I mean, we’re playing tonight even though we are saying that our games will now be played when there are not international games on but we’re in the middle of the World Cup. I’m not quite sure how that works, but here we are. Playing without all of our star players available and it’s the same for Leicester. It’s not right that you pay your money to be season ticket holders to come to the games, and you’re not seeing the best possible teams out there. Because that’s what it’s all about. So that really annoys me. And that’s something I keep campaigning, keep pushing Chris Booy (Bears chairman) forward to make more things happen.

“I just think rugby as a product hasn’t got its act together. We need to highlight the benefits of it more. We do a lot of things in the communities which is fantastic. And we do a lot here. But my biggest frustration as the owner of Bristol Bears is that it seems all the other clubs don’t want us to do well, because apparently we have more money than anybody else and that isn’t fair. So they do everything possible. So the salary cap of five million is a waste of time in my opinion. We’ve lost the season, because we’ve had to let Charles Piatau, Semi Radradra, Sam Jeffries and other players go because they’re getting paid so much more money in France and in Japan. And we can’t keep them here anyway because we can’t keep it within the cap. So as a product, we’re cheapening it and we’re making it cheaper all the time.

“We need to get bolder. We need to have a cap at a level, in my view – it’s going to go up next year – but at seven, eight, nine million (pounds). It doesn’t have to be a huge cap. Clubs don’t have to spend it if they can’t afford to do it. But it allows those of us who want to invest in buyers and get the best players on the pitch to make the Premiership much much better for all rugby fans, and that will then boost the England teams and everything else to go with it. So that’s where I’m coming from. We need to be bolder, we need to market it better,  and we need to stop being silly and nit-picking, trying to pull people back to – my phrase – the lowest common denominator. Rugby is working at the lowest common denominator and we shouldn’t be.”

On succession and further investment

“I’m not getting any younger. I’m very keen that there’s a proper succession for all the clubs here. So that when my my time is finished, it progresses further. That means we’ve got to bring new investment in and new blood in and new ideas in to develop and grow it. We all like to think we’ll live forever, we’ll be here forever. But life tells you that’s not going to be the case. So I’m just actively looking for people to invest into the football club, into the rugby club, into the stadium or wherever that may be within the group in order to be able to take it forward. Because the last thing I want to see happen is for the Bears to have come so far, and then to go back down again. Because that’s not the aim. The aim is to keep it going, to keep it a level, to keep us at the top of of the English game, and progressing. And hopefully what would be great is if we get this World Club Championship, then we’re at the top of that as well. So that’s the aim is to keep it but we need other people to come forward with investment going forward.”

On the sustainability of club rugby

“It needs more commercial revenue coming into the game, whether that’s TV money, streaming or just plain sponsorship. It’s a crying shame that the likes of Worcester, Wasps, London Irish and now Jersey Reds went out of business. But the reality is that they spent above their means. I have some sympathy in it because everybody wants to achieve and push. And bear in mind I spend a lot of my time in football. I’ve seen this happen time and time again. And it seems to be a disease of sport. But the reality is if we keep holding back and as I say, the cap isn’t the problem, it’s what people spend.

“There’s fear in the game. The fear is that Bristol Bears pay the full cap, we can’t afford to pay it so we pay less and we won’t be as competitive. But we all know in sport, it doesn’t always work that way. So you still got to get the right players in, the right structure, everything else. And the higher we raise the bar, the likes of ourselves, Saracens, Quins and Northampton, the higher we raise the bar, the more people will come up with us. And more sustainability will come. It will be shown more on television, more streaming, the more revenues we’ll get. At the moment, it’s difficult to get all those things because rugby is in the doldrums.

“I think – and I’ve got to be careful how I say this, I don’t really mean it in a way – but the fact that we’ve had clubs go out of business has been good for rugby. Because it’s told us you can’t keep on spending, spending, spending or borrowing. You’ve got to get your books sorted out. That’s the lesson we’ve all learned. Having done, it doesn’t stop us investing or growing or building and developing going forward. And that’s the key to it for me. It takes some bold decisions.

“Let me take you back to whatever it was, 2008/9, when Chris Booy came to me and told me that Bristol Rugby Club was going out of business. And I said to him at the time, the one thing that we need to do was keep Bristol Rugby going because Bristol has big rugby the support in the city. And whether that meant we stayed in the Championship, or we stayed in whatever division it was, it was important that Bristol Rugby Club survived. Sport is such that you enjoy the highs and sometimes have the lows. We’d go back down to have to come back up again. So we went down and we took a long time to get back up again. But we’re back now. We want to keep moving on. Now Worcester and Wasps could have done the same, they could have fallen down the leagues, got themselves sorted out and come back again. But nobody wants to do that. Because fine or whatever it may be. But that’s what should happen. That’s market forces. That’s commercialism. So at the end of the day, rugby can sustain itself. But it’s got to spend within its means.”

Main photo: Martin Booth

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